Favorite Payne Rod(s)

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Pentalux	Favorite Payne Rod(s)		Lead	[-]
Posts: 21 05/05/2008 10:45	Tags : None Hello to all - Would very much like to hear which original Payne model or models everyone most prefers. I have only cast and/or fished with about five or six of them but found that two were instantly noted as amazing - to me at least - with the others less so - again to me at least - curious what the consistently top models are considered to be by those who have cast or owned them. Also curious which model might perhaps be considered the all around hallmark taper for Payne - Is it the later 98? TIA Best Regards, Rob
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Hipgnosis	Favorite Payne Rod(s)	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 445 05/05/2008 11:36	I own/owned a variety of Payne's over the years and to me Payne's kick into gear at the 8' mark... the 102, 201, 204L, 205 are absolutely outstanding rod tapers (for me anyway). IMHO Payne's shorter rods are not as finely developed as the 8 & 8 1/2 ft. rods. Payne Parabolics... well, Summers and Youngs are much better choices here. Obviously, there are going to be many differing opinions from other members, but this is my .02. Which rods did you find amazing, Rob? Mike HIPGNOSIS
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spruce grouse		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1012 05/05/2008 12:28	Well, there are many here who have more Payne experience than I do but I'll give my two cents worth. I don't think you can necessarily say all Paynes of the same model are the same rod. I've noticed a difference in feel between earlier and later rods of the same model a couple of times. My favorite (so far) is my 204. Everyone who has tried it has raved about it, including Ed Engle (who is a big fan of Paynes, I found out). The 102 is a powerful rod, but not as nuanced as the 204. I've only cast one Payne I can say I didn't care for - it was a 200 from the '30s and was just too slow for my tastes, but was well-liked by certain fussy members of the Hiram Leonard Fan Club, one of whom bought the rod.. I guess I can't completely agree with Mike as I tried a 198 to die for earlier this year.
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wefishcane		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 634 05/05/2008 12:39	The only original Payne rod I have owned and fished is the 101 which I will find any excuse to take to the stream. I have recently acquired the 197 but have yet to fish it. Jim Last Edited By: wefishcane 05/05/2008 13:29. Edited 1 time.
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BluDun55		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 51 05/05/2008 12:48	I have 4 original Paynes, all 8 foot and larger so my comparison is very limited. You really need a serious Payne collector with a wide variety of Paynes to get a meaningful comparison. I LOVE my 204L. I have alot of 8 and 8 1/2 classic rods to compare and Jim Payne's 204L is really outstanding! J
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rocketman		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 80 05/05/2008 13:06	I have three original Paynes and my favorites are the 201, 205 and 198 depending on what type of water I'm fishing.. I also once owned a 200 but didn't care for it. Those old fishermen: They're slow-moving and crabby and some of them talk to themselves, but they can catch trout. John Gierach - Standing in a River Waving a Stick http://www.vintageflyfisher.com
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quashnet		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1937 05/05/2008 14:36 Moderatus Muscae	"Jim Payne told Joe Garman that he felt his rods were best in the 8-foot to 9-foot range." ---- Gerald S. Stein, "Personal Treasures: The Bamboo Fly Rods and Reels Fishermen Love," The American Fly Fisher, Vol. 17 No. 3 (Fall 1991). The Payne 204 I owned for twenty years was a fine rod. I have cast no others. Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of 290 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories, etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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Joel Anderson	Payne Tapers	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 21 05/05/2008 18:16	I just today took the time to lawn cast three Payne tapers I made over the winter. My Observations: Payne 100: This rod is definitely the female of the bunch. Smooth and delicate, it rewards you only if you slow down and take your time. Can't wait to throw a soft hackle fly with this beauty. Payne 98: The young teenage boy of the trio. Anxious and impatient to get where it's going, it demands you to quicken the pace a bit. This little bad boy will be a wonderful dry fly rod for small to medium streams. Payne 102: Powerful and capable, yet at the same time refined and delicate; whatever you need, this rod can accomodate. I'd hate to have to choose one, but in a fire and but one rod that could be saved, I'd reach for the 102. joel
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tedgolden		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2458 05/05/2008 18:25 Moderator	My favorite is a 97 which I consider "best of class." My 204 is a wonderful rod with a 5 DT. My 98, faster action is OK but doesn't stand out. The 200L I have is somewhat a specialty rod, good with soft hackles where the wind isn't blowing.
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Soft Hackle		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1043 05/05/2008 18:34	I have fished with a 97, 198 , 102 and 201, liked them all very much although only the 102 was an original Payne. The 198 I liked the least as it was too fast for my tastes. I agree with Ted on the 97, mine is a Guba/Bacon and really sweet. The original 102 was very special, medium action but powerful as was the 201.
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Vandy	Favorite Payne	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 05/05/2008 18:51	The 101--an absolute gem--the finest seven and a half for a five ever made....
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Nympher1		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 245 05/05/2008 20:15	I love my original 204, and I'm getting pretty impatient with myself because I've ferruled a Tim Zietak 7'9" Payne Para, (214?) so I've put it together and flexed it, but I've not mounted a grip or done anything else..but it felt pretty nice...hopefully I'll get to it this spring!
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Rolf Jacobsen		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1938 05/05/2008 20:31 The COOLER	I'm a puppy at this so take it for what it's worth. I've cast Spruce's 204 and REALLY liked it. I've cast a 100H and it left me with "nice rod but". I own a 100 and bought it because I just enjoy casting the damn thing. It handles dries and wets with a smoothness that is present throughout the whole rod and distances cast. Does that make sense? For my tastes, I would describe the action as a true medium action rod although some might disagree. I fish a SYLK DT or WF four weight with this rod. Yep! I love this rod. Rolf Brook Trout are God's way of reminding us everything is going to be alright.
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gclark	Favorite Payne	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 91 05/06/2008 00:06	Payne 98 The sweetest 7' four weight. gClark
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Horsesho		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2599 05/06/2008 06:28	It is very hard to compare Original Payne tapers with modern clones. Payne's tapers were cut on a beveller with changes every 1", clones for the most part are hand planed with changes every 5". Apples and Oranges.
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Pentalux		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 05/06/2008 14:43	Thanks for all the responses. Almost seems like the three piece rods are liked most. Mike - to answer, I personally am astounded by the smooth power and subtle abilities of a 98 (A&F era) well used and still original finish, guides, etc- although in need of a few new wraps- and a 7' 9" 4wt Parabolic (wood seat spacer so believe an early model) that was refinished. That rod handles line like nothing else and lays down curve casts with a mind of its own - its amazing. Want to thank everyone for the replies thus far - please keep 'em coming - curious if an east/west type preference line might be showing with prevailing waters being the big deciding factor as to favorite model(s). Interesting stuff - to me at least. Best Regards, Rob
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kmgunn	hmmm	#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 616 05/07/2008 13:49	My two thoughts probably echo those already shared. I don't find hand planed Payne taper copies to capture the essence of Payne rods for the reasons Marty stated. This is not to discount those copies, but just to acknowledge that they are very different. I think the Parabolic rods can be great, or not. I think it is unfair to write them off, as some are truly special. In the twenties and thirties short Jim Payne rods (under 8ft) were made for smaller rivers and were much more delicate and slow. The big taper changes (in the fifties) turned those short rods into practical rods for medium rivers. Sometimes a new rod (like the 97 or the 197) was introduced to fill the purpose of the lighter more sensitive rods that used to be filled by the 98 and 198. Both the 198 and 98 introduced in the fifties are much faster than the previous versions of these rods. These two tapers have many fans, but I generally don't like the modern (50's and later) version of either. I like the old 198, and 98 better than the new ones. I also like the early 102 and 200 more than the post 50's versions. Most people disagree with me on both points. Of course these rods, along with the 204L, are the most Leonard like of the tapers. This probably explains my love for them. The 101, 102, 201, 204, and 204L are probably the most consistently loved rods for good reason. I haven't met a Payne 101 made by Payne that I didn't love. Oddly this rod seems to transcend many opinions about tapers. People who like a medium fast rod seem to like it as do the slow rod crowd. I have not cast a 101 copy that captures what Payne did with that taper. I am not a rod maker, so I'll trust Marty's explanation. Much like a Dickerson 8013, there is nothing like the real thing. I would put in a vote for the 104, and 102H as special rods. For big water, a solid 204 or 102H is hard to beat.
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Soft Hackle		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1046 05/08/2008 07:11	How much different could a Hal Bacon version be than the original? Whether hand planed or not I don't see how that could be real significant difference. Also, if the taper is a match every 5" , wouldn't it match the original. Perhaps Hal Bacon could add something to this?
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mer		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2989 05/08/2008 08:11 Registered User	It would match at every 5 inches, but with hand planing or any forms that are based on 5 inch stations they give you a straight line between the stations. The closer you put your stations the shorter the length of the straight line sections are. The more stations the more fine tuning you can do. Think about drawing a circle; you can approximate a circle with straight lines, the shorter you make the lines the closer to a true circle you can come. Extend that idea to the planing forms, the closer your stations, the better you can control the changes. Terry A took that a bit further with his idea of a CNC "beveller"; if one wanted I imagine you could do quarter-inch adjustments. Now I don't know if a typical user could actually feel a difference, but it seems like something a rodmaker would find "pretty neat". As for Marty's statement about the beveler on 1 inch stations vs planing forms on 5 inch stations, I bet that if one made up a set of planing forms on 1 inch stations out of a flexible enough material (perhaps a high density plastic?), you could get a lot closer to the beveler. The downside is that it would probably take forever and a day to set the forms correctly. Just non-rodmaker thinking out loud, my opinion, feel free to disagree as desired. This signature left intentionally blank.
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kmgunn	nice	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 617 05/08/2008 08:21	Great description Mer. I think the analogy to a circle makes it very accessible as a concept. Others would know, but I would guess that Hal has a beveler, or many, and could cut a Payne taper accurately.
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Soft Hackle		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1047 05/08/2008 08:42	I understand the difference between 5" and 1 " stations but find it unlikely that Payne would have devised changes in the taper at every inch or so. I think the 1" stations may have been his means of insuring accuracy and control over the cutting rather than an indicator of the frequency of changes in the taper.. An interpreter such as Bacon would have access to all the measurements and if changes were called for between the 5" mark perhaps would incorporate them , perhaps not. It would be interesting to hear his response as he had possession of all the Payne numbers I believe.
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