lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (Gnome) — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:19:09 GMT

Pat,

The KOSMIC we cast is my Spaulding, Smooooooth as butter as was the IW. It was really neat and Troutwings fell in love with the rod. I think a straight to tonkin translation of that taper will be magic.

Fun stuff and that IW will need to be fished and soon!!!!

Jeff

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:12:02 GMT

Jeff,

One of the things I've discovered with the Edwards rods (pre-1931) is that an 8-foot Special has the same casting characteristics as a De Luxe, and even the Mt. Carmel model. The basic differences between models are in wraps and reelseat. Sometimes there's far more flaming in the De Luxe. The less expensive models appear to be oven-baked rather than hand-flamed. But as you note with the Kosmic/Walton rods, the cast and taper seems identical. From an economic (&...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (Gnome) — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:22:55 GMT

casting the Walton side by side with a KOSMIC at CRR was very interesting.
The two rods had an absolutely identical action and felt as if they where made by the same hands.
Too consistent too not have been made by one or more of the KOSMIC group Thomas Edwards Hawes and Payne. either one or more of them collaborated on the rod at least in my opinion you could not feel 1 bit of difference between the two rods.
And as an additional bit of confirmation one of the rods in the Rod...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:41:37 GMT

Bruce, good information. I hadn't seen the A&I catalog. Using a simply CPI converter, the 2007 value of $15 in 1899 is $386. So, not dirt cheap, but not expensive either. My earlier harsh assessment of the quality is based on the seam down the reelseat and the general quality of the cane. But your comment that the EC rods are "as good as other makers of the period" is spot on.

I stand by Landman. But Monty--? Well, why not, particularly in the final run of this...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (BruceHandley) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:07:28 GMT

Pat,
Your a bit off on the price of the "Empire City" fly rods. I have a copy of an Abbey & Imbrie catalog dated 1899 and it lists the 9 1/2' and the 10 1/2' fly rods at $15.00 in the "Special Grade". Not a small sum for the date in question. I'm also not sure its fair to say that they weren't well made, I have a few " Empire City" rods and they are rather well done. I will say that they are not without a few seams that are in question...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:48:09 GMT

As an aside, I would still like to know the derivation of "Empire City" in relation to those low quality Empire City rods. We have to all admit that the rods, if made by T&E (& frankly there isn't a shred of evidence that they were), were the poorest product ever produced by either man. Regardless, "Empire" almost always--then & now--referred to NY, not Maine, & usually in the context of Empire State. Historically I can't find one city versus...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (jeffkn1) — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:18:21 GMT

Bruce

You guys have been buying T&E rods, but they had to call them Empire City because Empire Laundry didn't have the same ring to it.

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:41:32 GMT

Haha! The whole story is slowly coming together! And when things got slow, Fred sent her down to check on "things" at the Empire Laundry, his other cash source. This all no doubt kept EW's head spinning.

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (BruceHandley) — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:03:24 GMT

Pat, as to the "butt out lady", its my understanding that Thomas had her chained to a bench in the back room. She was forced to sell her talents, no not those talents, you see she was the best rod wrapper in the state of Maine.By way of getting even, she figured out a way to do the sig. wraps with only 3 turns of 3 O silk, and restorers have been struggling ever since. Now there's a bit of Maine history that Jeff K didn't know about.
Bruce

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (BruceHandley) — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:37:31 GMT

Oh god, say it isn't true! There are no T&E rods? Then what in the world have Dave and I been collecting all these years? The master plan was to "corner the market" and at the correct time, to sell and make a killing. Now I guess we'll have to "part out" the rods and sell the Landman hardware, any takers out there?
Bruce

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (canesterdf) — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:08:26 GMT

I guess I left out a very important word....purported.....I suppose you have gone down that T & E path a few times Patrick, I did not really mean to raise your hackles. I, by the way just got your book. It is a very nice piece of work. Congratulations on a splendid job. Thanks & Best,Paul

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:07:48 GMT

'Looking forward to those photos. T&E's, right?! Each with an elegant hand-engraved, "Thomas & Edwards" cut into the N/S butt cap?!!!

I've heard rumors that T&E never made a rod longer than 7-feet, that all their reelseats were hand-turned from Mammoth tusks & that the tiptops were spun from 24 kt pure gold. Because the gold was soft, the tips wore out & they were forced to create a large-scale repair division. Some say they did it purposely...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (canesterdf) — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:42:35 GMT

Well, I will still send you a picture or two pretty soon. "I always try to think a bit before plunging a stick with a flaming marshmallow into my mouth,which is better, the thrill or the taste ? - PDN" All in good cheer young man. Best,Paul

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:45:19 GMT

Please, Paul, do not bring up T&E rods. :-) There are already at least five or six wonderful threads on that topic with not a single T&E rod that's emerged as being an actual T&E rod. If they exist, they're scarcer than dinosaur's teeth. We now know the boys repaired rods, but nothing else is certain.

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (canesterdf) — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:04:18 GMT

Jeff has the only 9ft Isakk Walton I have seen in awhile. it is a neat rod discovered not long ago.How about you guys send him some photos of your Isaak rods. Then we can all have a look at the pics. would make a nice thread. Which make me think of another neat group of rods Abbie & Imbrie ,T & E rods. I have neat little 8 1/2 in sort of rough shape I know little about..Now start sending those pictures to the Gnome and in a couple days we will all know a little more.Thanks &...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (Gnome) — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:11:14 GMT

looks like that spread sheet will be a short one. Any one else have a marked Walton?

Jeff

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (BruceHandley) — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:03:15 GMT

Charlie,
Thank you for the kind words, I like to show some of my old rods to others of the same bent. I'll fill you in on the fishing latter in the week. However I think you have that one hatch figured out, I will try to join you next June. It was a pleasure to have met your charming wife and of course to get to spend time with you.

Jeff,
Yes I have a Isaak Walton, but can add little to this post. My rod is a mirror image of the rod you show in your book. It came in...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (jeffkn1) — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:46:58 GMT

The Walton thing is metaphorically a Gordian knot.
There were not only the obvious, clearly marked rods but pretenders as well, sometimes referred to as "Walton-grade" rods made by Thomas or some other rod elves. They parallel known Waltons in specification with a few minor differences. My William Read Imperial is attributed ca1898/1900 to Thomas by Campbell, and it's fitted with a Montague seat barrel over which a very Thomas-like band slides. Cane is Calcutta, ferrules...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (cwfly) — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:54:15 GMT

Jeff,

1. Bruce is fishing, if the weather is holding up. 2. Bruce restores rods beautifully, and 3. Bruce can cast - very, very well.

The last time this question...

Re: lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (pcg) — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:30:41 GMT

Just as an aside... these early Waltons -- whether Waltons or Isaak Waltons -- are genuinely scarce. Anyone deciding to add a great example to a collection will be shocked at the difficulty. They're not terribly expensive, just... scarce...

That aside, the issue I've been trying to pick apart is how the rod making was divided up when the gang itself broke up. We have, without good proof (IMHO), a belief that Payne continued making Kosmics. We have, without good proof (IMHO),...

lets nail down the Waltons / ISAAK Walton and "The Walton

feeds@yuku.com (Gnome) — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:31:13 GMT

Lets see what we can do to nail the Walton's by KOSMIC/?.

so to do this I have set up a spread sheet and am going to call for memebers that have one to share the info and I will make the spread sheet availble to anyone interested.

I have developed a bit of a theory about the late ISAAC WALTONS that have all of those monty components and it is this;

they where made by Montague and sold by Whittmore thus accounting for the Varney influenced/redwing...