Jim Payne - Early Rods

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (fishbates) — Sat, 17 May 2008 22:48:13 GMT

Payne rods from earlier years were generally softer slower actions, the orange color comes from the aging process of the varnish, its doubtful he used colored varnish, quality was always top notch, his 60's rods were generally not as dark as his 50s rods, also tapers changed a bit over time particularly for the tips
dave

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (czkid) — Sat, 17 May 2008 21:13:59 GMT

Talk to Mike Brooks... he figured out to exactly reproduce the Payne coloration... gave a presentation on the subject at SRG a few years back.

Ralph

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (oneculm) — Sat, 17 May 2008 20:43:28 GMT

Anyone have any idea what oven times and temperature's Payne might have used? And the other treatment would be?

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Housatonic Quill) — Sat, 17 May 2008 12:24:44 GMT

Al Nixon said:

Besides flaming and tempering, there was another treatment by Payne that some of us might know about.

And that would be ...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Al Nixon) — Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:13 GMT

I think that it is quite likely that James Payne used tinted varnish; Garrison did for a while ("pumpkin Garrisons", remember?). Payne knew Garrison.
And of coarse, Payne knew E. Edwards, who seems to be the first of the group who flamed bamboo. For a while, Thomas might have taken the wrong direction by staining the bamboo in the mahogany rods, if he was trying to emulate the Edwards color. And maybe there was more to the color than stain. Clearly, he (or his son) later...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (john channer) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:34:23 GMT

I'm curious as to the actual color of the bamboo under the varnish. I've heard from several people that Payne used orange oil in his varnish much as we use Penetrol today and that that accounts for the orange tint Payne rods seem to have. I've worked on a couple of Paynes and they might have had colored varnish , I know that's what I did to the second tip I made for one of them and it turned out a pretty good match. The only Payne I've ever seen without varnish was a long...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Catskill) — Sun, 11 May 2008 10:01:15 GMT

Obviously, the color of a rod both natural and flamed will depend upon the bamboo and the other factors. I showed an older Payne 100H from the 50's, which had a distinctive rose color to the flamed tone, to one of our olderest living rodmakers a few years ago. He brought up the fact of a certain gas being restricted from sale and use long ago and how the flamed toned colors changed after that. This gentleman never worked for Leonard or Payne in any way as he had his own rod company...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Al Nixon) — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:24:36 GMT

I hope that I do not regret this.

I have to question the notion that the type of gas used can affect the color of flamed bamboo. The gas residue would have to penetrate not only the enamel, but also the waxy layer beneath it before it can somehow color the bamboo. I have not flamed with pentane, but if you were to compare the color of the rods made by the gentleman who did to a 1950s era Payne rod, I'll bet its still not close in a side-by-side comparison.

I can...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Catskill) — Sat, 03 May 2008 10:49:32 GMT

Once of the lesser known facts is why the color of the rods varied. This had to due more to the type of "gas" or other combustible being used. Even the later rods varied due to restrictions or availability of certain gases over the time period of the Payne rod company.

Catskill

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Short Tip) — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:57:54 GMT

Early Payne 210 I once had the pleasure of owning. Note the waisted ferrules and all metal reelseat. A surprisingly light in the hand 6-7 wt.

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (BluDun55) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:13:36 GMT

Thanks Spicy! J

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (spicyfish) — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:49:24 GMT

The George Halstead article was fantastic. I learned a lot from it and was amazed at the level of detail you provided about him and his evolution/contributions in the rod building area. Well done!

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (BluDun55) — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:55:44 GMT

Rolf.... You cannot get The American Fly Fisher journal at a newsstand. You can get a copy for $4.95 by going to the amff.com website or call the Museum at 802-362-3300 and talk to Becky Nawrath (her email is amff3@amff.com) J

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Rolf Jacobsen) — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:38:52 GMT

BluDun55 wrote:
I have an 8'1" 2 piece early JIM Payne with beautiful, down-locking seat, bright nickel silver hardware, Ed Payne "Pot Belly" ferrules and gorgeous browntone color. It too (like Trout 120's) has intermediates and the varnish is the best I've seen. This rod belonged to Roy Steenrod and I purchased it from Marty Keane years ago. The wraps are a purple/burgundy or "plum" color...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (cwfly) — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:54:00 GMT

BluDun55,
Thanks for reminding me. I did go back to your wonderful article. It's a lovely rod and I had forgotten (I seem to forget alot, a lot sooner as the years go on) that Halstead joined Jim Payne in 1925.
Charlie

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (BluDun55) — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:28:04 GMT

I have an 8'1" 2 piece early JIM Payne with beautiful, down-locking seat, bright nickel silver hardware, Ed Payne "Pot Belly" ferrules and gorgeous browntone color. It too (like Trout 120's) has intermediates and the varnish is the best I've seen. This rod belonged to Roy Steenrod and I purchased it from Marty Keane years ago. The wraps are a purple/burgundy or "plum" color (gold tipping). It does have a blunt tipped cigar grip. You can see two pictures...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (cwfly) — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:37:59 GMT

T120,
Thanks. I gather that you would rank his rods, even at early age, right up there with the best of his older contemporaries. Interesting start at such an early age and pretty much by himself. He was only a couple of years older than Fred Thomas's son Leon but making rods at the same time as Fred, Eustis and Hiram.
Charlie

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Trout120) — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:58:57 GMT

I'll chime in. Jim's early rods were just as nice as his later one's with a couple of cosmetic differences. His browntoned rods were breathtaking, with his ruby red wraps and black tipping. There's a rod in the American Museum of Fly Fishing like this that was owned by Babe Ruth. I was able to pick up a matching rod a few years back. The varnish is flawless, the only difference being bright hardware, a walnut seat, and a more blunt cigar style grip. Not to mention it's...

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (cwfly) — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:58:06 GMT

Rolf, it appears that but you and I have an interest in the subject. I guess I'll go back to the books to see what I can pick up from the pages.
Charlie

Re: Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (Rolf Jacobsen) — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:30:14 GMT

I hope someone chimes in on this as I'm also very interested. I would be interested to hear what the big kids have to say.

Rolf

Jim Payne - Early Rods

feeds@yuku.com (cwfly) — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:29:54 GMT

Much discussion and opinion is expressed from time-to-time regarding early 20^th century rodmakers. I can't say I know much about those from the West and little enough about those from the East. Frequently, there are enthusiastic statements about Eustis Edwards and Fred Thomas, among others. Hiram Hawes was making rods until his death in 1929.